I enjoyed reading your post with many fine points. I find in identifying myself as a JW I would be agreeing with all of the teachings. I prefer to be called Christian.
The Finger
JoinedPosts by The Finger
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30
Something that's been on my mind for a while and I finally put into words.
by WontLeave inshould i turn "apostate"?.
when anyone is replying to a matter before he hears [it], that is foolishness on his part and a humiliation.
prov 18:13. .
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
I think your bottom line so to speak is that it doesn't really matter what is taught or preached as long as you join in with the "anointed" in preaching whatever they are proclaiming at the time as this is the truth on the day. So how do you identify the anointed? Because they preach the 2nd coming as invisible and that we are in it? If i disagree with you on the presence of Christ and will not preach it will I be saved? Russell wanted the churches of his day to join him in preaching Christ invisible return in 187something. What if you refused to join him? Couldn't agree with that rubbish. How about the (lol) picture in the proclaimers book of the hut with the millions now living will never die, What if you walked past and said "Tripe" and continued to believe that Christ died for you?
I don't need you to answer. I was a strong JW for over 30 years. But you should think about what has been preached in God's name.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
Thank you for taking the time to post Russell's views on the resurrection. I didn't mean to give the impression that JW's should be embracing the teachings of Russell however I do believe they should be honest as we all should be as we remember ananias and saphira who were also imperfect.
The Watchtower I believe 1966 I'll just quote page 40
"By means of this visible, composite sign, over a million persons in all parts of the globe today acknowledge that they have been enabled to "see" "the sign of the Son of man" and to recognize its meaning.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog
"At Matthew 24:23-26, Jesus was telling his disciples about visible Messiahs, about "false Christs" that would rise up so as to mislead the chosen ones:"
"Your question here cannot have anything at all to do with Jesus' warning his disciples in the first century AD about the emergence of "false Christs," especially considering that Jesus said these things would occur before the "great tribulation" that occurred in 70 AD as made clear at the very beginning of Matthew 24:29:"
In verse 26, It sounds to me that he is saying the "false Christ , false Prophet" is not visible to them as he says "do not go out" I'm assuming this to mean to the wilderness and they should not go out to see as he then goes on to say that his presence would be like lightening something which is very visible and clearly links this scripture to the presence.
These ideas and teachings of CT Russell and others that you distance yourself from are the reason and basis for your preaching and message of 1914 and the generation. A basis that as one can see how easy it was for Russell to be wrong when it comes to an invisible presence of Christ likewise today with the ever extending generation it would cause one to question the invisible presence especially as the WT has claimed millions have seen the sign of Matthew 24:30 only to realise again, they haven't.
If you, as you claim are a JW do you think the WT is open and honest about it's history, if you teach others and yet did not know what Russell taught?
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
Some years ago I had an Elder PO of many years come to my house as I had been accused of Apostasy. The accusation was found to be false. However in the discussion I had to show the Elder some things he was unaware of in the publications, he didn't like it. The following evening at the hall he got on the platform and spoke abusively of me. He had to be counseled after the meeting by another elder and went home. I was not in attendence that evening, maybe Jehovah thought it best I didn't go. My relatives who attended and my close friends said it was plain who he spoke of and would not tell me what he had said they thought I would be too hurt. The matter was never mentioned again. The congregation was left with the viewpoint he had made. It made attending the hall uncomfortable but we went anyway and me and him still talk. The point it is it can be uncomfortable to come to realise what the WT has said. I had at a later date another Elder who refused to read the paragraph in the Revelation book as I was trying to explain my reasoning and why I was questioning the teaching. He would read the one before and after but not the one in question. You have not provided any evidence of CT Russell believing that 1914 was the start of Christ's invisible presence. You maybe right. You maybe uncomfortable that you are wrong and do not wish to talk about it but would rather talk of it as being unrighteous in discussing it. I don't know.
However it seems to me from reading Matt. 24. that Christ warned there would be those that said he was here when he wasn't. CT Russell seemed to be one who claimed that. It seems F Franz claimed he had seen the "sign of the son of man" when he hadn't. What am I to think?
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Satan is the best god to worship because.....
by XPeterX inthis is my point of view:.
he has much more followers than god.
his music is better than god's (metal,gothic,and anything related).
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The Finger
You can spend an eternity with him in the warm.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
I find it interesting that you did not provide any WT quotes as evidence to what you were saying but instead used Romans 6:7 which I would disagree with you on.
I'm not ashamed of Christ or his words. You deliberately twist what I have said and Christ will judge as to whether we lack faith.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog,
When did Russell make this adjustment to believing the invisible presence was in 1914? and could you show me a quote from the Watchtower of the time period that shows this adjustment. Was it before 1914 or after? I understand from your previous posts you have an extensive library of older publications.
"that you do not think it to be your obligation to let folks know that the meaning of the things that they have seen taking place since 1914 signify that the end of this system"
I did. When I was about 10, I done pioneer days, sometimes spending Saturday afternoon alone doing NH or calling on those whom I'd left the magazines with previously. I spent summer holidays in service sometimes doing 10 hour days. I arranged my school schedule so as to join my pioneer brother in the field service in the afternoon. I brought teachers to the hall and witnessed to my classmates. Later I was able to bring workmates to the hall. I dropped out of High School at 16 to devote my time to the preaching work, a life saving work rather than pursue what I really loved to do. I don't subscribe to the view that since 1914 we have seen a composite sign of Christ's invisible presence hence I no longer preach it. In fact I feel ashamed that I preached, by offering the Awake, that the "generation" as we defined it at the time would not pass away as it was part of God's promise. God's name was associated with this error.
"So, seriously, @The Finger, do you think it to be righteous on your part to be dragging this man, Russell, that has been dead for almost 95 years now, who despite all of his flaws and imperfections, was a believer in God's word, a man that did his best to follow the direction that the holy spirit led him and others, as he endeavored to listen to the what the spirit"
I find history an interesting subject maybe you do too. The bible history shows the many flaws of those recorded in it. I don't consider discussion of the bible characters, whether it be David or Peter or Moses as dragging anything. I also don't consider quoting the WT publications and questioning beliefs as unrighteous. Maybe you do?
Well I can't answer the question on the Holy Spirit because I'm sure you'd say I don't have any so I'll let you answer it.
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269
Have your JW Relatives Explained about Generation/Overlap Change to You ?
by flipper inafter reading on the way out's thread about his mom explaining the generation overlap to him it kicked this idea into my head to make this thread .
i thought it would be helpful to see if anybody here has had jw relatives or friends try to explain this " generation overlap " theory to you as a faded or inactive witness and what happened in the conversations.
so please feel free to post your experiences.
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The Finger
Djeggnog
I don't understand what you mean when you say " In addition, Russell preached that the invisible return (or "presence") of Jesus Christ would occur in 1914"
In the book Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, pg23
"JOHN: First of all, Pastor Russell and those associated with him believed Christ's invisible presence in spirit form had already begun in 1874. They realized Christ's main work at the time was to gather those that were his and to free them from the many contradictory teachings as to what the divine will was for them. They believed Christ's purpose in returning was to gather them together, restore the true worship and then, in 1914 at the end of "Gentile Times," take them into God's kingdom,"
On pg. 60 of the same publication quoting from the Nov.1 1914 Watchtower "Should we expect that the Lord would reveal Himself the very moment Gentile Times end? No. The bible declaration is that He shall be revealed in "flaming fire." Just how long after the Gentile times close will be the revealment in "flaming fire" we do not know..
Which suggests to me he believed Christ was invisible present in 1876 and a visible presence some time after 1914.
You also make mention of the change of the Planetary status of Pluto although i agree in essence with your reasoning. The difference to me is that the Scientists are men lead by men. This is supposedly God organization lead by Holy Spirit and the understanding of "this generation" is tied directly to the truth of God's Kingdom as Witnesses we have preached such. Whilst in fact it was not truth.
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Explanation for the generation in Matthew 24:34, Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32
by alice.in.wonderland ini see quite a bit of inquiry about the generation in matthew 24:34, mark 13:30 and luke 21:32. in every scripture in the gospels, the term generation is referring to a wicked generation except for matthew 24:34, mark 13:30 and luke 21:32. .
then as an answer to him some of the scribes and pharisees said: teacher, we want to see a sign from you.
in reply he said to them: a wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of jonah the prophet.
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The Finger
The only thing this explanation proves is how wrong they were with the other and how unlikely it is they have been chosen for anything.